The goal of this Empirical Legal Studies (ELS) lab meeting, organised by Leiden University, is to discuss the biggest challenges for legals scholars in empirics and vice versa. This session will be led by Jessie Pool, co-project leader of ELS lab@Leiden, who will also share her own experiences in this regard. The session is inspired by Jessie’s forum contribution for empirical-legal journal Recht der Werkelijkheid in which she addresses this topic together with Paulien de Winter.